Eastern approaches

Ex-communist Europe

Protest in Hungary

Hungary steps out

Jan 3rd 2012, 15:45 by A.L.B. | BUDAPEST

THE symbolism was telling. Inside Budapest's Opera House, Hungary’s great and good were knocking back sparkling wine at a gala event to celebrate the inauguration of the country’s new constitution, which came into effect on January 1st. Outside, on Andrássy Avenue, tens of thousands of protestors demanded its withdrawal.

Brushing off the demonstrations, President Pal Schmitt hailed Hungary’s new "basic law" as a brave new dawn. It may well be, but probably not the kind that Hungary’s rulers are hoping for. As the blog Contrarian Hungarian reports, protestors are increasingly taking control of the streets. The Andrássy Avenue march was just the latest in a series of public actions against the government's growing autocratic tendencies and its relentless centralisation of power.

Monday’s protests were significant as well as symbolic. This was the first time that opposition parties—the Socialists, the Democratic Coalition and the green-liberal LMP—had joined forces with street activists. Peter Konya, leader of the Hungarian Solidarity Movement, welcomed what he called “the long absent co-operation between civil groups and parties of the democratic opposition”.

Gabor Ivanyi, a Methodist pastor, told the crowd that “There is no truth where laws are passed forcefully, without consultations, where people live in fear and where people are not equal.” Mr Ivanyi is one of 13 former dissidents and liberal politicians to have signed a letter calling for the European Union to intervene and protect Hungarian democracy.

Government officials deny that Hungarian democracy is in danger. How, they ask, can this be so when an enormous crowd is free to demonstrate outside the very building where they are celebrating? In 2010 the right-wing Fidesz party won a two-thirds parliamentary majority in a free and fair election, they argue, and the government is simply fulfilling its mandate of radical change and renewal.

But as the government brushes off requests from the EU, the IMF, the European Central Bank and the United States to reconsider key legislation that may be in breach of its international treaty obligations, such arguments sound increasingly unconvincing.

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MilovanDjilas

Hello from Trieste!

We are trying to understand what is happening in Hungary. My friends and I in the democratic opposition to Berlusconi expect - frankly - to win our next elections, whether they are at the end of 2012 or beginning of 2013.

My question is this - and I would appreciate any response from Hungarians.
I understand the wrong Hapsburg disease is raising its head again, but there is a private debate going on among the Left here:

How much of what is going on in Budapest/Hungary results from Italian influences - be they the Vatican or the Vatican's (former?) secular stooges in politics like Berlusconi?

Amazingly, Italians seem finally fed up with using the "Communist" label to discredit public figures - especially since the Hero of the Day in Rome, the President of our Republic who nominated and sponsored Mario Monti, the man who will save the Euro and perhaps even the European Union, is Giorgio Napolitano - a former leader of the Italian Communist Party for 40 years. (He is 86 years old).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giorgio_Napolitano

Napolitano (who was the historic leader of the centrist, pro-American and pro-NATO wing of the Italian Communist Party - at least after 1968) was already Minister of the Interior under Romano Prodi's government in 1996 (thus commanding the intelligence services and police, etc.)

He was Communist Party Secretary of the Province of Salerno in 1956 - and as such supported the Soviet Invasion of Hungary. One of his first acts as President was to visit Hungary and apologise for having taken that position 50 years earlier. I would also remark that the Italian Communist leaders in Gorizia and Trieste (some of whom are still alive today) condemned the Soviet invasion (in Friuli and the Venezia Giulia we were always close to the Hungarian people, regardless of politics) and paid for their position with "internal exile" in Sicily and Calabria (sent by the party to "study the Southern question and the Mafia").

laddie buck

As a Hungarian, let me suggest a minor correction: Mr. Iványi's translation should read "justice" instead of "truth":
“There is no justice where laws are passed forcefully, without consultations, where people live in fear and where people are not equal.”

In Hungarian, we use the same word for both (igazság), so it's a common mistake in translations. It's easy to see which sense was intended here.

Wendromer

Under the previous MSZ(M)P-SZDSZ leadership, GDP growth in 2009 was -6.3%, NEGATIVE six point three percent. In 2011 it was about 1.5% but POSITIVE.

Before Fidesz was elected, Hungary had enormous economic problems. Long term problems, that will take decades to solve. Only a wizard could make all those problems disappear in the 1.5 years since Fidesz is in power. If Fidesz governs for 8 years then it will be a fair comparsion to the 8 years of the MSZ(M)P-SZDSZ's era.

Only the bigoted judge the economic results after 1.5 years. Tell me about the state of the US 1.5 years into the Obama administration. Did it suddenly became perfect?

Dezko XVIII. vzdelany

inside out, only Magyar "historians" have been fabricating (salting) history of Carpatian Basin since 12. century. Anonymus and Simon started to varnish magyar history. And so Magyars cannot know thruth and vote Orbans.

Dezko XVIII. vzdelany

Why do you say Hungary when you talk only about Magyaria (Magyarorszag)? Hungary haven`t been existing for 93 years. Medieval Hungary kingdom (1000-1918)split in 1918.

no, Huns (Atila) and medieval Magyars (Arpad) was two different tribes. Saint Stephen`s Hungary kingdom (1000-1018) was multi-ethnic empire: Magyars, Slovaks, Romanians, Serbs, Slovenes, Croats, Ruthenians, Germans (Franks) had been generating "Hungarian" nation for 918 years. Hungarian is not the same as Magyar. Hungary was not only Magyaria (Magyaria was only central part of Hungary).

Sorry but you should learn some real history of Europe and not communist or nazist lies. You are totally confused. I am Romanian and we learn the most detailed history of this region. SSlovakia was formed only in 1938 and the fouder was Adolf Hitler. SSlovakia had only fascist laws and many of them are still in use even today. SSlovakia was the last ally of nazist Germany.

RezsoLazar

It is true that the unemployment rate in Hungary is about 11%, but there are a lot more jobless people. Those who are not registered as unemployed may amount to another 20 %. This people are mainly gipsies, having rights of their own. What is more most of them do not work. I do not agree neither with USA nor with EU. Some decades ago they cut Hungary into pieces. I live in Romania as a Hungarian with another one million 400 people.

Bilboko in reply to RezsoLazar

You are right, this joblessness is a problem.

However, one has to know who to compare to. Compared to Germany, of course it is a problem. However, in Spain, there is 20% unemployment, 50% (!!!) youth unemployment. They still run around with BMW's in towns where there is essentially nothing.

RezsoLazar

I am convinced that the Hungarian government is acting corectlz as to centariyation of the power. The people are becoming too lazy to work, about 30% percent of Hunagry's population live on social aid, not because there are no working possibilities, but because they do not want to work. This is my own experience. I spent 8 years in Hungary.

markthehungarian

There were two sets of protests taking place outside the Parliament - groups from the left and also the right. There were fewer than 10,000 people on the streets (I was there), and it should be made clear that there were no other protests in Hungarian cities. The only protest was in the capital and made by a very vocal, but very small, segment of society.

Protesters from the left complained that "they are changing OUR constitution," as if Hungary's previous constitution had been well thought out. It wasn't. It was a hastily introduced document brought in when communism fell. In fact, Hungary was the ONLY ex-communist eastern European country that didn't throw out their constitution in the early 90s and rewrite it. The rewrite is long overdue.

Protesters from the right, meanwhile, were protesting that the current regime has not done enough to punish the previous government (or their lackies) for the widespread theft, looting, and illegal activities that took place under their watch.

It would be good to remember that while protesters from the left were complaining that "democracy is being eroded," when the previous socialist government was in power, protests were met with force, with police batons, and with water cannon. Also, Gyurcsany, while in power, once said "if you don't like it, leave." The current government is not saying that and not acting the same way, for which it should be applauded.

Hungary has been in dire financial straits for the past few years now, yet it has not collapsed. After Greece, Hungary was supposed to be next. After Ireland, Hungary was supposed to be next. After Portugal, Hungary was supposed to be next. It hasn't fallen yet. In fact, its debt (as % of GDP) is less than the UKs.

Times are not easy here, for sure, but to say that there is a dictatorship here is ridiculous.

Gabyca85

Gaby: How can be a democracy in a country, where there is a two-thirds majority, which leads the country and the government can do whatever it wants to do? Government can change contitution, appoint new bodies, which supervise all the formerly independent institutions, such as Constitutional Court etc.
Hope that Europe and USA are willing to help us!

Romulus777

There're some things I don't understand. Let me explain.
First, as for a Hungarian, I don't really understand who does she think the USA is, or the IMF -which is not even a political but a financial institution, or should have been- to argue with the Hungarian government about its Home Affairs? I have never heard of such a thing, that in a world which is controlled by laws, a country is allowed to dictate what another sovereign country's Home Affairs should have been made up by.
As we do not order the USA to stop being a "war beast", and give up its middle-eastern orientation in order to spread its "democracy" in return for oil.

"There is no truth where laws are passed forcefully, without consultations, where people live in fear and where people are not equal.”

I'm not a cadre, I never was, or will be. Not even part of the FIDESZ and didn't even vote for it.
However I'm capable of understanding that if the constitution says, laws can be passed by the agreement of 50(%) percent +1 of the parliament, and the situation is given that a party was voted by 69% of the voters how on Earth could it be called "passed forcefully"?
I live here since I was born, I can't say I love living here but to fear? It's ridiculous.. I don't know what does Mr.Iványi fear of if it's not that he has something to hide. Mr. Iványi is a well-known challenger, who always enunciate his hatred againts the Hungarians.

To prevent any further comments about my political identity I'm not even a right-wing.

Romulus777

There're some things I don't understand. Let me explain.
First, as for a Hungarian, I don't really understand who does she think the USA is, or the IMF -which is not even a political but a financial institution, or should have been- to argue with the Hungarian government about its Home Affairs? I have never heard of such a thing, that in a world which is controlled by laws, a country is allowed to dictate what another sovereign country's Home Affairs should have been made up by.
As we do not order the USA to stop being a "war beast", and give up its middle-eastern orientation in order to spread its "democracy" in return for oil.

"There is no truth where laws are passed forcefully, without consultations, where people live in fear and where people are not equal.”

I'm not a cadre, I never was, or will be. Not even part of the FIDESZ and didn't even vote for it.
However I'm capable of understanding that if the constitution says, laws can be passed by the agreement of 50(%) percent +1 of the parliament, and the situation is given that a party was voted by 69% of the voters how on Earth could it be called "passed forcefully"?
I live here since I was born, I can't say I love living here but to fear? It's ridiculous.. I don't know what does Mr.Iványi fear of if it's not that he has something to hide. Mr. Iványi is a well-known challenger, who always enunciate his hatred againts the Hungarians.

To prevent any further comments about my political identity I'm not even a right-wing.

Romulus777

There're some things I don't understand. Let me explain.
First, as for a Hungarian, I don't really understand who does she think the USA is, or the IMF -which is not even a political but a financial institution, or should have been- to argue with the Hungarian government about its Home Affairs? I have never heard of such a thing, that in a world which is controlled by laws, a country is allowed to dictate what another sovereign country's Home Affairs should have been made up by.
As we do not order the USA to stop being a "war beast", and give up its middle-eastern orientation in order to spread its "democracy" in return for oil.

"There is no truth where laws are passed forcefully, without consultations, where people live in fear and where people are not equal.”

I'm not a cadre, I never was, or will be. I'm not even part of the FIDESZ and didn't even vote for it.
However I'm capable of understanding that if the constitution says, laws can be passed by the agreement of 50(%) percent +1 of the parliament, and the situation is given that a party was voted by 69% of the voters how on Earth could it be called "passed forcefully"?

I live here since I was born, I can't say I love living here but to fear? It's ridiculous.. I don't know what does Mr.Iványi fear of if it's not that he has something to hide. Mr. Iványi is a well-known challenger, who always enunciate his hatred againts the Hungarians.

To prevent any further comments about my political identity I'm not even a right-wing

marting456 in reply to Romulus777

The problem is not with changing the constitution but they way it's being changed. FIDESZ did not mention any of these proposed changes before the election. They said "Vote for us and we will reduce taxes and no austerity". That's how they got 2/3 in the parlaiment. Had they said "We will confiscate private property, shut the media up and impose austerity" they wouldn't even be in parlaiment. So they are no better than MSZP. All these changes should be now up for referendum the same way they demanded it for the $5 doctor visit fee a few years ago.

Unfortunate to see from your comment that even Hungarians who speak English don't understand how a normal democratic society should function. You will fear when you realize that these reforms paved the way for the nazis to get in power. Why do you think a rich country like Germany who doesn't owe anyone insists on checks and balances?

Romulus777 in reply to marting456

I have no intention getting into a flame war, and I'm sure neither have you, but show me a successful politial party which campaign is based on limitations. Avarage citizens care and live from day to day, One who promises higher wages and the reduce of taxes gets the votes.
And by this - because parties reliability is reasonably questionable- the country's governmen rotates in every 4 years.

By the way as you said Orbán was a member of the communist youth organisation, but in that era, whoever had intention becoming a politician -or even wanted to get into a university- had to be the member of the KISZ.

I'm sorry if my English is getting worse with time, it's really late, or too early.

the_cuckoo in reply to Romulus777

I am not sure Orban was a member of the youth organization. At the university at that time, KISZ was the student union as well, so i would not be surprised if he had. But i remember that the Fidesz posters on the walls were periodically tore down by staff members, and replaced by enthusiasts. Starting Fidesz at that time was a mighty brave thing. I wasn't part of it, because i wasn't brave enough, but i did secretly replace the posters.

marting456 in reply to Romulus777

MDF wanted austerity and limited government. If the majority believe that it's possible to have wages and reduced taxes then they deserve the government they got. This is exactly why Hungary has a debt problem because these kind of policies can only be financed by more borrowing.

There were many who didn't join the communist party and became successful: Hofi, Torgyan. You can succeed without selling your soul to the devil though it might be easier that way. It's obvious to me that whoever does that has no integrity and is not worthy of my vote. If it was a nazi government back then Orban would have joined that. All he cares about is himself and not the country.

Romulus777 in reply to marting456

"You can succeed without selling your soul to the devil though it might be easier that way. It's obvious to me that whoever does that has no integrity and is not worthy of my vote. If it was a nazi government back then Orban would have joined that. All he cares about is himself and not the country."

Actually almost all the members of the parliament in Hungary "sold his/her sould to the "devil" "
I think I don't have to introduce these people:
Prime Ministers of Hungary Since 1994

Horn Gyula Prime minister 1994-1998
Former member of the Hungarian Socialist Workers' Party

Orbán Viktor Prime minister 1998-2002
He was a member of the Communist Youth Organisation.

Medgyessy Péter Prime minister 2002-2004
Former member of the Hungarian Socialist Workers'
Party,and in addition he worked as an informer in
the communist era.

Gyurcsány Ferenc Prime minister 2004-2009
He was a member of the Communist Youth Organisation.

Bajnai Gordon Prime minister 2009-2010
He was a member of the Communist Youth Organisation.

Speakers of the National Assembly of Hungary

Kövér László 2010-
Former member of the Hungarian Socialist Workers' Party

Szili Katalin

Bilboko in reply to Romulus777

"He was a member of the Communist Youth Organisation."

Almost everybody was a KISZ member. Membership was almost automatic. It was like pioneer.
Everybody in primary school was a pioneer.

On the other hand, not everybody was a member of the party. (Only 10%)

Romulus777 in reply to Romulus777

Oops. Touchpad.

Szili Katalin 1994-1998
Former member of the Hungarian Socialist Workers' Party

As you can see, we have many politicians who are in connection with the former Era.There is not a shadow of difference between the left and the right wing.

marting456 in reply to Bilboko

There was a major difference between being a member in the KISZ and being an activist. All university students became members automatically which meant you got a stamp in your little book every month. On the other you became an activist to prove you were worthy of becoming a future party member, ie to verify you were loyal and ambitious enough to spy on your friends and rat out your colleagues.

About Eastern approaches

Eastern approaches deals with the economic, political, security and cultural aspects of the eastern half of the European continent. It incorporates the long-running "Europe.view" weekly column. The blog is named after the wartime memoirs of the British soldier Sir Fitzroy Maclean.

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