The real lesson from the leaked records of fighting in Afghanistan

Not surpassed to see the typical anti-American hegemon comments here. No doubt, bad stuff happens, innocent people get killed, and irresponsible soldiers do terrible things, intentionally or otherwise. But where were all those comments when the Taliban was cutting off girls' noses, or stoning them in soccer stadia? If that's the alternative to the hegemony of America, then bring on the Leviathan. As horrific as some of the US's actions (like water boarding) have been, do they really compare unfavorably to the religious insanity of the Taliban rule?

Maybe being there isn't worth it. Maybe we can't make any long-term improvements. Those are fair criticisms. But to act as if we are the same in intent or effect as 19th century colonial powers is just ahistorical rubbish. The Taliban, and the other militant Islamists with which they associate want their own version of hegemony, and trust me when I say you don't want their version more than ours.

Churchill famously said during the Battle of Britain "Never... was so much owed by so many to so few." He was referring to soldiers defending their own lands. We're sending soldiers to Afghanistan to fight back a virulent ideological group to allow the people to live with some semblance of hope for the future, spending billions we probably can't afford and spilling the blood of our sons and daughters. What's in it for us in the end? Probably not much substantial. But then if we did get anything substantial, we'd be accused of going to war to steal the resources.

We went there because the de facto leaders allowed sanctuary to a terrorist group that plotted an act of war on us. We remain there to do our best to ensure a chance that the barbaric Taliban cannot reimpose themselves upon an Afghani population that hates them, but doesn't have the wherewithal to resist themselves. The average Afghani doesn't get funded by the ISI, and America lost interest in them after the Soviets were driven out. We are basically cleaning up the mess we left behind.

I don't understand how the term "insurgency" applies to Afghanistan. The Taliban was in de facto power when we invaded. They were, for better or worse, the government of the country. America invaded and has been trying to destroy the Taliban. If the Taliban fights back, does that really constitute an insurgency, which is commonly defined as an attack, from within, on a sitting government? I think this term is just one more example of semantic spin being used to justify a bloody and wasteful invasion.

So the leaks "sharpened a perception that Pakistan’s military intelligence agency, the ISI, has been backing the Taliban in its fight against NATO." I would say combined with other evidence it proved beyond a doubt. This for a country we are borrowing billions of dollars from the Chinese for and neglecting our own infrastructure. Just as we betrayed our servicemen in Vietnam by allowing French missiles to be shipped without interference to North Vietnam, we are betraying them now by allowing them to be killed by a country we are sending massive assistance to.

The Ugly American hydra head rears up all over again. Innocent civilian lives lost in the hundreds of thousands in Afghanistan & Iraq at the blood-soaked hands of American forces is conveniently silenced or sidelined by Imperial America.

Instead they justify the war in Iraq & Afghanistan on the pretext of the 9/11 incident & thereon in the imaginery war against "terrorism". The sad reality is American forces are weilding & instrumental for far more terror among the hapless & innocent civilians in both these nations, than vice versa.

The glaring double standards & the flagrant hypocricy of the Ugly Americans, knows no bounds.

Wake up folks & smell the stench of the putrid & bare-faced lies emanating from Washington..

You mean we don't actually just stroll in there with flowers and baskets of chocolate singing koombaya and everybody then loves us?? Heavens to Betsy!

I am really confused about what to say and what not to say. I consider US and its allies are civilised,democratic and very trusted. But I now feel very sad and ashamed on US false role on Iraq and Afgan war. Why US leaders are making false and untruth statement on its involvement in Iraq and Afganistan. How long US will continue its unrespectable role on world affairs. World is not benefitted by US false leadership.Such stand of US and its allies will never bring to this wretched planet.

It is in line with the general arrogant, ignorant and borderline 'racist' attitude that many in the West don't even realise they hold (of course as this is the definition of ignorance) - that one would look at these leaked documents as a mere lesson in 'strategy'.

We all suspected and knew to a certain extent that there were big problems in the way the war(s) were both started and carried out - but this to me and I am sure to others can not be brushed aside as 'something we already knew'. We are shocked and disgusted with every single account of killing and especially when it is clear the perpetrators who under the guise of 'delivering freedom' and 'fairness' not to mention the name of our countries are committing gross mistakes and worse.....

The 'campaigns' in Afghanistan and Iraq are the biggest insult the US could have delivered to the victims of 9/11 and the worst possible solution for protecting the future of their citizens (economically and well-being).

The media was used and complicit in helping the crusades and bank accounts of a very small number of people - fear and aggression triumphed over intelligence and foresight; as the dust settles intellect must overcome fear and we must now be fair and firm and bring all to account who hijacked the world for the last 10 years.

Believe in good, believe in people, and believe we can enforce change.

"Debate in Washington about what to do in Afghanistan centres around two military strategies."

Sorry to quibble, but you can't "center around" something. You can center on something, or you can revolve around it. To "center around" is semantically meaningless, like a "round square".

I am always baffled at how Americans think that they can mess other countries affairs and than leave the "locals" to clean up American excrement.

What is even more astonishing is how it is expected that everybody should act as humble lackies agreeing and fullfilling Americans´desires.

What if the Pakistani helps the Taliban? I always thought Pakistan was an independent country which also has its own interests in the region and which most certainly do not always align with USA´s interests.

Imagining that the Pakistani, or the Afghanis for that matter, are delighted to serve Americans interests and clean up Americans boots and mistakes is an incredible obtuse view that can only come up from arrogant and short sighted persons.

If the USA is willing to put up some cash to "help" Pakistan or Afghanistan, it is no wonder that people may take the money with one hand and accomodate their personal interests with the other hand.

I am pretty sure that both Afghanis, Pakistanis, Iraqis and even Iranians for that matter are pretty aware of the fact that the USA does not blink an eye to leave its supposed allies in dire straights when it does not befit USA´s agenda.

People are no longer so naive. Greedy, certainly. Naive, not any more.

COIN worked where?

For how long, and how did it end?

If it didn't end maybe you have some living examples? The US client states of Saudi and Egypt and The Phillipines maybe? The homes to Wahhabism and the Muslim Brotherhood and the NPA ....

Who did you blame & designate as terrorists after 9/11 and where did they come from?

COIN what a crock!

Sorry, this article puts forward a wrong-headed opinion in my view. Time to get the military out. While it is not that simple; it is that simple.

Its time to build schools and roads with the billions.

So long the Hegemon and its AngloSaxon axis is constantly pushing the envelope to do all it can for its geostrategic interests, the World will be see more Wars and Disharmony.

For example in the recent UN vote to make Access to Clean Water as a human rights, the Hegemon et al did all its best to block the resolution and finally abstained. Only when the Hegemon understands that it should do what is right and not just for its geostrategic interests will the World finally free itself from pestilence, conflicts and hunger.

Half the world thinks that the leaks are a CIA plant. They provide an avenue to withdraw our forces from Afghanistan.

Hey, I thought a war could be won or lost. Where does that put "withdrawal"?

Even as the Hegemon is prepared to wind down its war in the AfgPak theatre, it does not mean that the world will be free from more conflicts.

Instead we could reasonably expect a spike of new real and proxy conflicts involving the Hegemon around the world like Iran - Syria - Lebanon theatre, North Korea - South Korea conflict, Venezuela - Columbia conflict, Brazil - Turkey axis etc. after its withdrawal

Yes we can all thank the Hegemon for its very generous food and other humanitarian aids to many disaster hit regions from time as far back as I can remember. Much of these aids will be consumed and leave the stomaches hungry for more.

However the Hegemon is best remembered for its adeptness in creating conditions for conflicts in developing world and leaving behind many shattered land like Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan etc. But when coming to Developmental and Climate change assistance in region like Latin America or Africa, it is usually very parsimony with doling out the cash to help out the poor to help themselves. In fact when other tries to help Poor countries with loans without strings, the Hegemon tends to see it as a challenge rather than an opportunity.

Churchill also famously said 'Sometimes it is not enough to do your best, sometimes you have to do what is necessary.' What is necessary is to stay the course in Afghanistan.

It is said insurgencies win out if the occupying power withdraws in approximately 11 years, but are defeated in an average of 13 years. That's 2012 and 2014 respectively. Meanwhile the mass media are helping no-one by dwelling in detail on every casualty, running up casualty lists etc and pouncing on every sign that things might be going wrong.

The recent wikileaks revelations suggest, as the article says, that the war isn't going wrong in any unexpected or particular way. Yes, there is endemic corruption and more importantly there is a long history of opium cultivation and smuggling which engenders more powerful loyalties than anything the coalition has managed to drum up. Yes, things do go wrong, mistakes are made, people die un-necessarily. And yes, the whole mess is as much because of US neglect after the Russian withdrawal. But the real scandal is in the clear signs of ISI support for the Afghani Taliban, their idea of an 'ace in the hole' once the Americans and everyone else leaves.

Well, sometimes you have to do what is necessary. It is time to put the ISI under the spotlight, identify the people responsible and neutralise them once and for all (maybe house arrest would be enough but a charge of treason should be pending on any breach of the conditions). The 'black' forces running around Afghanistan looking for Osama Bin Laden and his pals on a 'terminate with extreme prejudice' mission might be better employed pro tem to winkling out ISI involvement on whatever rules of engagement the US considers appropriate. Meanwhile the ISI themselves might consider cleaning house, or be persuaded it's in their own best interests to do so. Much also might be accomplished by supporting the Pakistani army directly in their efforts to clean out the tribal areas, this also could encourage the ISI to be a bit more consistent in its loyalties.

Finally much might be accomplished by diplomatic efforts to encourage the Indians and the Pakistanis to make peace and build up confidence that it will last (a roadmap perhaps?). Kashmir could be key here, as this commentator has argued in another post. It is still the source of much terrorist activity which would disappear if Kashmir got its independence. Again this might help concentrate minds at the ISI.

Then there is the business of the two countries' nuclear arsenals. It should be spelt out to both of them the horrible consequences for the whole World of a regional nuclear war fought with the arsenals they have to-day. They should be treated to simulations of what would happen in a nuclear war between them according to the latest climate models available. They should be invited to consider the attitude of the World community, in the event of widespread verification of the modellers predictions, to the prospect of such a war looming and maybe consider that peace and confidence building instead is a really good idea and there's (now) no reason why not outside intellectual laziness and venality. Once again the ISI might get the point.

As for Afghanistan itself there is a plan B if COIN should fail, also as discussed in a previous post by this commentator. It would be most effective if leaked in advance to the Karzai government, and concentrate a few minds there too. The litmus test there would be if they suddenly became quite reconciled to having Paddy Ashdown as UNHCR, as survival instincts might suggest.

And then there are the Iranians....

The real lesson from the leaked records of fighting in Afghanistan..... is what!??? that now we know not to kill people at random!!??....

The author of this 'piece' needs a reality check.

or do we wait for a few more 1000 people to die and then choose another strategy!!? - this is why we went to war this is why it will happen again! - because some people just dont care about the suffering of others......especially if the look and sound different to themselves!

The real lesson is that "Trust your US master at your own peril even though the money may be good."

As the US is prepared to flee, the Obama regime is prepared to put all the blames Kaizai regime for the loss of Vietstan. In fact, the Wikileaks may be are to allow the Talibans enough time to finish off most of the informants and their families etc. so that there will not be too many war refugees with enough reasons to fear for their lives from coming over to the West.

Danny Ferry,

I blame Johnson's blog for your revelation as I too have one of my own. I demand justification for, "safeish” be published on Johnson.

P.S. if I can’t center around can I at least do a reverse Fibonacci toward the center? :^d
That’s gotta’ be worth at least 10 points!

'Hey, I thought a war could be won or lost. Where does that put "withdrawal"?'

I would imagine the outcome will be status quo ante bellum. Mildly disheartening though that is.